Suggestion PvP Refinements

[Seiichi]

Here are the concepts of the new PvP system we have conceptualized:

• Making PvP completely opt-in through enablepvp command.
  • Command will have a cooldown for enabling and disabling it, preventing abuse.
  • Command cannot be used in combat to prevent abuse.
  • Command will override sky island territory wars (this is still under consideration).
    • If possible disable PvP on a single island, making it the opposite of B19 (when it is up). Only crystals would be available, and no mobs.
  • PvP becomes available at 100+.
  • Disable enablepvp upon death and clear the cooldown (prevention for spawn camping), and disable it in towns, at spawn points, in dungeons and in similar places. Duels would still be available.
• Flag wild dragons that are in the capture mini-game to make them invincible.
  • This is partially due to PvP, and partially due to the actions of players already.
• PvP will now be party/raid based allowing for more structured PvP (GvG, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v5).
  • Possibly implement a group PvP option that will enablepvp on both party/raids and will only be lifted when the duel ends. This is to prevent abuse of people disabling in combat to not die. We also do not want to leave it in the hands of the group leader as it could be used to grief people.
  • Implement a player arena (similar to Dragon Arena) so that players can do structured competitive PvP.
• (Possibly) Encourage PvP through an existing or new point system that will allow them to purchase PvP specific items.

In my opinion, this should fix issues some people who are against PvP that currently exist in Dragon's Prophet, while also create a more structured PvP system for people who enjoy PvP.

Many complaints in this thread regarding PvP have less to do with open world PvP, and PvP in general. I have already asked Vipera to help me write up guidelines regarding PvP that will be made part of the community guidelines that I am in the process of writing. These guidelines will layout the behavior expected of players on our server, as well as what we deem abuse or a reportable offense.

If issues come up regarding to anything PvP related, we will look over these plans, and adjust them accordingly as I want to balance and improve this aspect of the game so that it creates a better community, and not encourage more toxicity.

 

[Vipera]

Since there's been word about revising the PVP systems on this server it'd be a good thing to discuss what we'd like to see and not see, on both the PVPers and non-PVPers side. Of course I'm biased towards PVP, as I like to battle other people for fun, so please feel free to comment with your own pros, cons and suggestions to be added into the lists in order to give feedback and make this enjoyable for all sides.

What I know is that there is possibly going to be open world PVP but it will have to be switched on and off by you and therefore is optional to do.

Pros:

• PVP isn't bound to a certain place or time anymore.
• No one is forced to fight if they don't want to.
• It adds a very intresting element if you can be attacked anywhere.

Cons:

• People will probably fight over dragons if two want the same.

Suggestions:

• It'd be cool to be able to fight anyone whos not in a group with you, maybe with a maximum group size of 5, including guild and alliance members, as big guilds would likely overrun solo players.
  
• A cooldown until you can switch out of and back into PVP mode.
• Something that prevents you from switching out of PVP mode during combat.
• Maybe a reward system to encourage it, but nothing you absolutely need for something important. Such as everyday items, shells, and the like.
• Depending on how long the turning on/off cooldown would be, afk zones would be a good idea so you don't have to wait 30 minutes to PVP again because you had to leave for 2 minutes. These could be inside a certain building for example.

 

[Tenren]

Open world PVP sounds like fun! Although nobody will keep it on while for example farming for daily quests or stuff so you can contest the spot with them. Which makes PVP not so PVP afterall. I come from BDO where open world pvp is a thing, and grind spots are contested by strength, with the downfall of those going into pvp and killing others by having them loose "karma" until at a point they are free for all and their gear might disenchant if they get killed themselves. That could be a thing here as well. "Force PVP" on others bringing you a debuff, giving the one that kills you a hefty reward from your pocket. ( or braking the shards of the attacker that would be painful to watch).

Now, besides the open world PVP, i believe the island system should stay as it is. You do need to do pvp for some laedis 94 gear, even if it's just farming, you have to do it on an island during war. It's 2 hrs/day war on most islands. No matter of how much you hate pvp, i think that if you want that part of gear, you should manage to go through that. It's not that bad, worst can happen you die and respawn 2 seconds later to continue your farm. And yes, i know about those complaining they are there only to gather crystals, which they loose if they die. But on that note, there are at least 5-6 islands going at war at once. Just switch the island if someone is killing you while you gather. That should solve your problem. If someone tries to take an island and is farming points, there is almost no chance he will switch from there during war as he will loose the points and progress he farmed.

Also having all PVP be on "if you want to" mentality i think it's wrong. PVP should still be needed for something like 94 laedis, or 102 laedis. Actually thinking it should be needed for more then that. But that's just me.

 

[Moonfire]

I am not into PVP at all, but have taken part in island wars occasionally. As long as there can be a toggle PVP off, I'm fine with others being able to do open PVP. That way folks that like it can, and those of us that don't like, don't have to participate in it.

 

[Catspaw]

Open World PVP? NO way, to me that is a game stopper. If players want PVP then they have B19, BG, and War. I am an old school player and have been in this game along time. I remember Dragon's Prophet before PVP was added and I loved the game, when PVP was added it became less appealing, but I stayed and played. I have a very strong dislike for PVP. You will always have the players who take great pride in slaughtering those who are not geared, not the same level, and those who wont fight back. I call these players "Ghouls", they live of others pain. Wholesale slaughter is not fun, and that is what it will become. I played on all the servers: (closed) NA server, (closed) Private Server, EU, and now here and I seen what pvp is and what is done in it and you can trash it. Open World PVP? NO WAY!!! NO HOW!!!, to me that is a definite game stopper.

 

[newb]

Sounds like a bit of work.

Not sure how open pvp would really work in this game. Its not like people are really running around farming mobs for exp or drops out in the open. Yes some will farm blue quest items from time to time but even when they are it would be hard to find a time to actually hunt someone. What I would see it end up being is people forgetting to turn it off and people killing others as they are loading out of dungeons or in town. As for the ancients I doubt anyone that is really farming them is going to turn on pvp to mess up that chance. They also die easy unless its on the last map or 2 and one Netherbomb could kill most dragons under lvl 90.

I could see this maybe working on a always on pvp server. Again however most will prob just kill people as they load out of dungeons without any harm to themselves. However, I would keep this off of the original pve server and prevent cross server transferring of items. This way people cant farm everything on pve and then transfer maxed out items to the pvp one or the other way around.

I would suggest an overhaul on the classes tho before touching open world stuff. I can already see the whole thing just being full of oracles spamming cure xD

 

[Tenren]

Sounds like a bit of work.

Not sure how open pvp would really work in this game. Its not like people are really running around farming mobs for exp or drops out in the open. Yes some will farm blue quest items from time to time but even when they are it would be hard to find a time to actually hunt someone. What I would see it end up being is people forgetting to turn it off and people killing others as they are loading out of dungeons or in town. As for the ancients I doubt anyone that is really farming them is going to turn on pvp to mess up that chance. They also die easy unless its on the last map or 2 and one Netherbomb could kill most dragons under lvl 90.

I could see this maybe working on a always on pvp server. Again however most will prob just kill people as they load out of dungeons without any harm to themselves. However, I would keep this off of the original pve server and prevent cross server transferring of items. This way people cant farm everything on pve and then transfer maxed out items to the pvp one or the other way around.

I would suggest an overhaul on the classes tho before touching open world stuff. I can already see the whole thing just being full of oracles spamming cure xD

The cure spam is so easy to beat though... you can burst through it with any class. Also i don't think another server for pvp is the way to go. There are way to few players anyway, splitting that into 2 servers would be really bad. But yea, i agree. Making it so you can turn it on and off is kinda useless. It won't bring pvp to the server as people would just keep it off always and maybe turn it on to kill some afk people or those that get out of dungeons and run away after.

 

[newb]

The cure spam is so easy to beat though... you can burst through it with any class. Also i don't think another server for pvp is the way to go. There are way to few players anyway, splitting that into 2 servers would be really bad. But yea, i agree. Making it so you can turn it on and off is kinda useless. It won't bring pvp to the server as people would just keep it off always and maybe turn it on to kill some afk people or those that get out of dungeons and run away after.

Yeah. but if people knowingly log into a pvp server they know what they are getting into. Plenty of people wanting to pk new players or those about to kill or cap a dragon. If you force everyone on the main server to go into open pvp that will make Seiichis job a nightmare since most players dont want to be openly hunted let alone pvp/duel in the first place. Let alone it would look like a ghost town since people could not afk or sell outside dungeons or in towns anymore. They would log or go into dragon sanc to do most of those things instead outside of crafting.

We have an open spot to pvp free for all anyways if people wanted to do that. When you put it open world you will just get people camping spots people need and have people finding other places to go and run away to. Yeah they can get a guild and maybe have a guild member come try to fend of said people to help their guild mate. However, I just think people will make pure pvp guilds to go out and kill others for fun. Kinda like how on EU BG has a team of Volans and a team of randoms that tend to get slaughtered since they are just trying to get the purp items or the dragons from it. Then the people that like to pvp will join the other pvpers and everyone will be on the same side anyways and complain no one is around to pvp with xD

 

[Tim Youngquist]

I like tenren's comment about keeping it to islands and BG. On the eu server there was an island that had open pvp 24 hours a day, no one was on it except for people farming xp from mobs.
I personally like the community feel of this game, you have to cooperate and rely on others to an extant that you cant piss everyone off to the point that you dont get invited to any of the activities. The person that is annoying you currently, may be your best bet getting help that you need.
So if it is your intent to get this server to end up like that island on eu, go ahead, kill the game. If not, and it just your intentions of drawing more people into pvp, have discussions, set up events where the heavy geared are helping the noobs.

 

[Kodawolf]

not a fan of pvp... of course i'll do it at war or BG but no i don't like it... i see it as creating more drama and fighting in game especially as there are players that will only target lower lvls for fun, and if you need to fight over dragons it'll be a bad thing, its already an argument causing thing now because ppl come and try to steal dragons that are tagged... Hmmm.... i dont know

 

[Madmartigan]

I have quit many that went open world. I have absolutely no interest in PVP. I came to this server because of that. Open world will insure that I won't be playing here. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Vipera]

As said above, it would be opt in and not forced onto anyone who doesn't want to. But I can see the problems such as people seeking out lover leveled/geared people, and things such as the loading screen kills. While a PVP server may not be working with this few people, giving you a spawning protection aura after a loading screen might. It should stay until you moved so people with long loading screens don't have a disadvantage, but it might work out with that. As for people hiding and not coming out anymore: The afk zones I suggested, as well as simply turning it off.

 

[Seiichi]

Okay so there's been a massive misunderstanding in-regards to tentative plans, which has lead to some overreactions.

Dragon's Prophet Online apparently already has an option for open world PvP, or at least the start of one. It also has a command enablepvp which enables a buff that we would utilize to make people flagged for PvP. This would be completely opt-in, and you would need to enable the command. Open world PvP would not be available until 100-105, as those are the levels you begin to get decent gear and can be slightly competitive, meaning that you could not attack lower level people.

Flagging and unflagging through the use of enablepvp would debuff you, making it so you could not change your flag status for 15-30 minutes; you also would not be able to change your flag while in any combat. This should prevent abuse of the system, or at least the majority of abuse.

A suggestion we also got was to make it so people in a party could not PvP each other, but everyone else is free game, opening up possible 5v5's within guilds and the like, bringing a more structured system into play.

One thing I kind of want to do, and this is something PvP'ers are unlikely to agree with, is allowing enablepvp to override territory wars, so that people who do not wish to be involved can turn it off. We may be able to make it so that what they do does not count towards active territory wars or something similar, but we will have to look into it.

Open world PVP sounds like fun! Although nobody will keep it on while for example farming for daily quests or stuff so you can contest the spot with them. Which makes PVP not so PVP afterall. I come from BDO where open world pvp is a thing, and grind spots are contested by strength, with the downfall of those going into pvp and killing others by having them loose "karma" until at a point they are free for all and their gear might disenchant if they get killed themselves. That could be a thing here as well. "Force PVP" on others bringing you a debuff, giving the one that kills you a hefty reward from your pocket. ( or braking the shards of the attacker that would be painful to watch).

Now, besides the open world PVP, i believe the island system should stay as it is. You do need to do pvp for some laedis 94 gear, even if it's just farming, you have to do it on an island during war. It's 2 hrs/day war on most islands. No matter of how much you hate pvp, i think that if you want that part of gear, you should manage to go through that. It's not that bad, worst can happen you die and respawn 2 seconds later to continue your farm. And yes, i know about those complaining they are there only to gather crystals, which they loose if they die. But on that note, there are at least 5-6 islands going at war at once. Just switch the island if someone is killing you while you gather. That should solve your problem. If someone tries to take an island and is farming points, there is almost no chance he will switch from there during war as he will loose the points and progress he farmed.

Also having all PVP be on "if you want to" mentality i think it's wrong. PVP should still be needed for something like 94 laedis, or 102 laedis. Actually thinking it should be needed for more then that. But that's just me.

There will never be a way to force someone into PvP. People who do not want to PvP should not be forced to PvP, and that actually kills the game for people entirely. We have too many people from too many different age groups, too many different corners of the world to fairly PvP.

I have quit many that went open world. I have absolutely no interest in PVP. I came to this server because of that. Open world will insure that I won't be playing here. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Read the first portion of this post; it is not mandatory open world PvP. You are not expected to participate, forced to participate, in actuality it should actually help refine the existing PvP sytem.

I like tenren's comment about keeping it to islands and BG. On the eu server there was an island that had open pvp 24 hours a day, no one was on it except for people farming xp from mobs.
I personally like the community feel of this game, you have to cooperate and rely on others to an extant that you cant piss everyone off to the point that you dont get invited to any of the activities. The person that is annoying you currently, may be your best bet getting help that you need.
So if it is your intent to get this server to end up like that island on eu, go ahead, kill the game. If not, and it just your intentions of drawing more people into pvp, have discussions, set up events where the heavy geared are helping the noobs.

We are going to do a 24/7 territory war island, we just need to figure out how.

Regarding the community feel of the game, I am trying to encourage that (eg 999 megas for 1 shell), and will continue to try to do things that encourage that. PvP however is a big draw for people from EU; if we can offer a better PvP experience we will pull in more players from there which should grow our player base (which we still need). While that has the added effect of bringing in unsavory players, not everyone who PvP's is unsavory (Vipera or @Falhofnir for example).

Open World PVP? NO way, to me that is a game stopper. If players want PVP then they have B19, BG, and War. I am an old school player and have been in this game along time. I remember Dragon's Prophet before PVP was added and I loved the game, when PVP was added it became less appealing, but I stayed and played. I have a very strong dislike for PVP. You will always have the players who take great pride in slaughtering those who are not geared, not the same level, and those who wont fight back. I call these players "Ghouls", they live of others pain. Wholesale slaughter is not fun, and that is what it will become. I played on all the servers: (closed) NA server, (closed) Private Server, EU, and now here and I seen what pvp is and what is done in it and you can trash it. Open World PVP? NO WAY!!! NO HOW!!!, to me that is a definite game stopper.

Read the first portion of this post.

Again, you will explicitly need to enable PvP to be involved. If you do not do /enablepvp you would not have to PvP at all.

 

[Tenren]

Well, Island war and Bg are the only places where you have to go for PVP. I don't think being able to turn PVP off during islands is a good step, that would leave the only place where you need PVP in order to get items you need for end game as the battleground. Or if you do it, at least make a leaderboard for war like there is for arena. And give each month like a random exclusive dragon or something to make people actually come to pvp.

 

[Vipera]

Well, Island war and Bg are the only places where you have to go for PVP. I don't think being able to turn PVP off during islands is a good step, that would leave the only place where you need PVP in order to get items you need for end game as the battleground. Or if you do it, at least make a leaderboard for war like there is for arena. And give each month like a random exclusive dragon or something to make people actually come to pvp.

I agree a lot! There needs to be a motivation for PVP then, like getting the laedis gear was. I know some people don't want to PVP, but I don't think removing the main reasons for doing PVP is going to help with the PVP systems. Getting laedis in war is already doable without fighting a single player, but it should still be a task to do as you need to watch out for other players. But adding a war to completely turn off PVP in a zone designated for PVP seems like it's sort of defeating it's purpose.

 

[Seiichi]

ok here is a ideal, (my son told me about, and may ease a lot of peeps minds)Make a separate Server, with the Open World PvP-Option/toggle thingy, label it Open World PvP, that way the 2 server's are kept separate, we wont have peeps killing the draggies that none PvP players are after, just so they can start grief-between guilds/factions etc... ez pz , all happy

Kit

Each server will cost a minimum of about $250-500 to run once we start opening other areas, so we are not just going to make a server for PvP.

Again, the system is completely opt-in so nothing should effect people who don't want do PvP.

 

[Seiichi]

ok can understand the cost, but there still will be the issue- the PvP'rs. will go after the dragons(wilds) that Non-PvP'rs, are after to start grief-have a beef/issue with-between guilds/factions-etc... if they don't like a player because, of age/ability/disability-etc. you will be dealing with this more than dealing with planning Saturday events.... it is a issue now, and it's not open world-just imagine what it'll be like when you do have it available- Sorry but seen it, lived it, dealt with it as a guild leader many times....Don't get me wrong yea, when i was on EU i wanted to farm mat's from BG and Island -for the Leadis, and even though i announced just there to farm there where those that just had to kill-other's where there like myself and was farming and honored the bound of mutual need to gather there mat's, me being a low lvl at the time, was fair game... so yea a toggle would of been great, but you cant toggle the other aspect of this game the part that make all of us want to play it....Dragons.. wild.. beautiful.. Dragons...and they are available to any who can tag it, but it don't keep it alive if someone is targeting the person/group/etc, that has the tag...and they will find a way to abuse that toggle,... sorry hon, i know you really want alot of peep's here, just giving you my thoughts

Kit,

Again, you're missing the fact that PvP will now be opt-in, so that people who have chosen not to PvP will not be affected.

 

[Vipera]

yes hon, i understand the opt-in/toggle/thingy-just trying to let you know my thoughts about human nature, and the abuse that will come, for those poor wild dragons, and the grief that will come,

But if they have PVP toggled off, nothing will change for them. Even without this option people can go after the dragons and cause trouble after all. You would only be attacked if you had opted into the PVP, and if you don't, nothing changes for you.
Also you need to see, just because we like PVP, we're not bad people. We are not here so we can cause grief and trouble, we simply enjoy the game in a different way, without wanting to force anyone to do so as well.^^

 

[Seiichi]

no not all PvP'rs are bad peep's and i am sorry if that was implied, it wasn't my intent, i am just thinking of the grief that can be caused by, those who love to create mischief... and i see one way being thru the capturing of wild dragons, i truly hope i am proven wrong, but this will be the last i say on the subject, hon, i just see some problems that may or may not cause you more grief than you will be wanting to deal with, but it is your server, and you can change it if it does prove too much,.. good luck, and let's hope the game stays true...

Kit

This problem already exists, and is already severely rampant on EU isn't it? If that's the case the problem will exist here with or without the change (I have already stepped in once for this reason), and that will be more a matter of enforcing community guidelines (which we are working on).

 

[Tenren]

This problem already exists, and is already severely rampant on EU isn't it? If that's the case the problem will exist here with or without the change (I have already stepped in once for this reason), and that will be more a matter of enforcing community guidelines (which we are working on).

Here are the concepts of the new PvP system we have conceptualized:

• Making PvP completely opt-in through enablepvp command.
  • Command will have a cooldown for enabling and disabling it, preventing abuse.
  • Command cannot be used in combat to prevent abuse.
  • Command will override sky island territory wars (this is still under consideration).
  • PvP becomes available at 100+.
  • Disable enablepvp upon death and clear the cooldown (prevention for spawn camping), and disable it in towns, at spawn points, in dungeons and in similar places. Duels would still be available.
• Flag wild dragons that are in the capture mini-game to make them invincible.
  • This is partially due to PvP, and partially due to the actions of players already.
• PvP will now be party/raid based allowing for more structured PvP (GvG, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v5).
  • Possibly implement a group PvP option that will enablepvp on both party/raids and will only be lifted when the duel ends. This is to prevent abuse of people disabling in combat to not die. We also do not want to leave it in the hands of the group leader as it could be used to grief people.
• (Possibly) Encourage PvP through an existing or new point system that will allow them to purchase PvP specific items.

In my opinion, this should fix issues some people who are against PvP that currently exist in Dragon's Prophet, while also create a more structured PvP system for people who enjoy PvP.

Many complaints in this thread regarding PvP have less to do with open world PvP, and PvP in general. I have already asked Vipera to help me write up guidelines regarding PvP that will be made part of the community guidelines that I am in the process of writing. These guidelines will layout the behavior expected of players on our server, as well as what we deem abuse or a reportable offense.

If issues come up regarding to anything PvP related, we will look over these plans, and adjust them accordingly as I want to balance and improve this aspect of the game so that it creates a better community, and not encourage more toxicity.

I for one love PVP. It's one of the only things i like about the game. Action combat PVP that's quite fast. As for the idea with open world PVP I don't like it. Specially if it's gonna add opt out of pvp for sky islands during war. Nobody will keep pvp on the map. so it will be useless. As for the structure you talk about, GVG or PVP in groups, for that it's enough to make an island with open PVP around the clock. People that like PVP and duels, will be there. It's not like there's stuff to farm on the map in groups, it's all dungeons. And if it's camping for dragons, those that go there will never have pvp open so you can say you will fight for a dragon. To me it seems there is a lot of work for it, and a lot of guidelines you gotta figure out. And the outcome won't help anyone. Those that don't like pvp, will be off all the time. Those that like pvp will be in battleground or at war. If this is about those complaining they got farmed at war when collecting crystals, just make a guideline for that. People might be assholes, but you can control that with warn / 2day ban / 1 week ban ... and so on. This is my view of the topic, hope it helps you into making a decision.