Dragon Increase in basic attributes for dragons

[Baarzukk]

1. I would like to express serious criticism of the planned changes you have in mind with the dragons. If you want to increase the attribute bonuses it either has little effect or only negative effects. If you wish, I'll be happy to explain my concerns to you in detail. However, it would be very long and complex. That is why I will only list the better and more effective changes, with fewer disadvantages, and say something about them.


a) Instead of increasing the level, it would be sufficient to increase the points that are available for the distribution in the attribute network from 1605 to 2405. This could be used to better improve defense and attack. To avoid unnecessary coding work, it should be an additional bonus that you get for reaching level 100 with the dragon, such as a damage reduction by 20%. Further, this type of expansion will have no effect on the mounting damage. In plaintext this means that the player’s damage remains the same and it gets not increased unnecessarily (which in turn would be disadvantageous for dragons and other players (pvp)).


b) In order to make dragons even more useful in pvp, it would be very good if the skill Groll Heart (which you can only find on Brasten dragons) gets revised a little. Right now it only reduces damage while you`re on the battelground. However, it would make a lot more sense if it got the same effect as the one of the Groll Fortress Collar. This would then, no matter where and when players attack the dragon, reduce the incoming damage by 35%, which, as I said, is currently only the case on the Battelground.


c) For pve and pvp, the Mannhart Set (which is available from Amy in the Draconic Sanctuary) for dragons would need to be upgraded from level 98 to 108 or a completely new set designed with the following set of bonuses: To reduce the strength and crit chance as well as the piercing effects of players and NPCs, a toughness of 1000-1500 would be neccessary on this set. Also full resistance (special damage resistance) and a constitution / HP bonus in the same amount. PS: Toughness is not a value you can find on dragon armor, that’s why it‘s only executable as a set bonus.

 

[Seiichi]

This is already planned, and also what has delayed the source update.

We are already increasing the attribute and attribute bonus rate that will be available to Dragons that are captured/purchased on the Marketplace. They will be increase from a maximum of 6/6.9, which is now the new minimum stat, and maxing out at 9/11.70, which is the new maximum stat. We are also making items for Diamonds and the Shell shop that will allow you to max out, or randomize the stat of the Dragon (literally 1 out of 3 chance for any stat).

We are going to be making changes later on to further boost Dragons, but these things require a lot of research and sometimes major changes for how things work.

 

[Baarzukk]

 

[Seiichi]

You are not accounting for the base stat change, and are only doing the attribute bonus change.

More over, the coming source update is to firstly get us on source code properly, secondly to introduce some QoL and performance fixes, and finally to set the foundation for doing changes like you are asking for. There are a lot of other things planned, however we cannot consider them until the source code update is released, and even then we have to research the best way to properly implement things as working with DP takes about 3-4 times longer than it should due to how they implement things all over the place.

We are planning at looking at increasing level in the future, however it is not as simple as changing a few values; I originally wanted to do 25-50 level increase with this source update, but it looks as if there is hard coding for the level currently, which means we will need to research what needs to be changed to make this possible.

The skill change is unlikely, or has to be researched. The reason being is if we change it from being specific to one zone, we then have to figure out what zones it cannot be used in as it would apply to Tournament. Again, it is not just a simple change as the skill system tends to be complicated, and not much is explained. They also do a lot of hard coding in scripting or in source for some things.

New dragon gear is planned, however I have to research Dragon gear and see if some other things are possible. It also comes to how such gear would be released in the game, which would also take some research.

 

[Baarzukk]

Seiichi, in my first post I've mentioned that the more you increase the stats the more you also increase the outcome. Even if the basic stats change, the result remains the same from 10.44 to 11.70. You will always get a damage increase that unfairly empowers AOE classes. Please read my posts carefully. Thank you.

You can increase the basic stats or adrenaline buff, etc. - it doesn't matter! The ratio stays the same!
Seiichi, let's say you have 10.44 kg of potatoes and you change it to 11.7 kg. It stays the same as if you say you have 10.44 kg of strawberries, changed to 11.7 kg.

 

[Seiichi]

Seiichi, in my first post I've mentioned that the more you increase the stats the more you also increase the outcome. Even if the basic stats change, the result remains the same from 10.44 to 11.70. You will always get a damage increase that unfairly empowers AOE classes. Please read my posts carefully. Thank you.

You can increase the basic stats or adrenaline buff, etc. - it doesn't matter! The ratio stays the same!
Seiichi, let's say you have 10.44 kg of potatoes and you change it to 11.7 kg. It stays the same as if you say you have 10.44 kg of strawberries, changed to 11.7 kg.

Because you feel the need to condescend, I'll just copy and paste the literal second sentence in the prior post:

There are a lot of other things planned, however we cannot consider them until the source code update is released, and even then we have to research the best way to properly implement things as working with DP takes about 3-4 times longer than it should due to how they implement things all over the place.

I recommend you lose the ego with me, as I do not have the patience, time or interest in dealing with it.

 

[Baarzukk]

Hi Seiichi.
Sorry if it came off like that, it wasn't my intention. I really like that you want to do a lot. I've been playing this game for about 7 years now and you are the first who really advance something.
But since I've been playing for that long already, I understand relatively well how things interact with each other. I can't directly influence what you will do or not. However, I can depict the impact your plans will have on this game. Because even the planned thingy with the armor of the dragons, will also increase the damage of the player by mounting the dragon. That means you will empower the player twice.
Next thing is that I sat down with several people and let them check my posts, in order to make them understandable for you. The reason is that I don't speak English well and even these people felt as if you didn't quite understand what I mean. That's why I tried to explain it so extremely simple in the end. I'm really sorry if you felt offended by this. I just wanted to help you with the overall input and my experience.

 

[Seiichi]

Hi Seiichi.
Sorry if it came off like that, it wasn't my intention. I really like that you want to do a lot. I've been playing this game for about 7 years now and you are the first who really advance something.
But since I've been playing for that long already, I understand relatively well how things interact with each other. I can't directly influence what you will do or not. However, I can depict the impact your plans will have on this game. Because even the planned thingy with the armor of the dragons, will also increase the damage of the player by mounting the dragon. That means you will empower the player twice.
Next thing is that I sat down with several people and let them check my posts, in order to make them understandable for you. The reason is that I don't speak English well and even these people felt as if you didn't quite understand what I mean. That's why I tried to explain it so extremely simple in the end. I'm really sorry if you felt offended by this. I just wanted to help you with the overall input and my experience.

As mentioned, the changes in the future will help to mitigate everything, but the stat change had to be done now to be as consumer friendly as possible with the addition of a max attribute item; if we did it later on, players would have to purchase it twice rather than the single time, and that is against my personal ethics in how we run this server.

We will likely focus on Dragon buffs, and character buffs at the same time, so as to try to balance out classes as much as possible. The issue is that the game is predominantly PvE, so any class changes have to take that into account. It is also not possible due to the way the game is developed to separate PvE or PvP as we plan for Dragon Saga (where all PvE skills are completely separate from PvP).

 

[Kitalia]

i think the increase is a great ideal, especially seeing as we need the bump for the higher lvl dungeons...our draggies suffer way to much in 102 and higher lvl dungeons

 

[Baarzukk]

i think the increase is a great ideal, especially seeing as we need the bump for the higher lvl dungeons...our draggies suffer way to much in 102 and higher lvl dungeons

It all depends on your distribution and what you plan to do with them. Even in RG my ironhide doesn't die with the bosses. What you all do not consider is that the regular defense doesnt do anything. that's why the Mannhards set (98) with its set bonus is just as good as a 105 dragon set and why is that so? Because there is toughness on him. But if you need help with your dragon or in general, feel free to write to me.

That's why I gave many, many points that would be much better suited. We reach with the right skill and distribution so 80% + defense and it is only a maximum of 95%. That is, raising the basic attributes won't make it any better. But you will notice that at the latest when it is there.








Theres nothing on the dragon armour except constitution, no strength, Focus, Dragon Affinty nor Intelligence. There is almost only constitution on it. If you are asked why ferocity is 10, then here is the answer. Because the skill soul drain scales with it.

But the best comes, instead of screwing the dragon so hard, Seiichi and co would simply have had to change the scaling of the charisma then all dragon would have become stronger. The effect would have been exactly the same xD. But that's the way it is when you have bad advisors. You can't know things like that because you don't play them, only you.

What you could of course have done if you want your dragon to be stronger is to get gloves until you have a charisma value of 200+ on them. This would also lead to the same result. you can see that my charisma is 1022 and that is 50% + of the standard value. Now imagine you get 200+.

 

[THARGOR]

i agree that toughness would help a lot, thats why i asked to add it as possible stat for dragon armor:
Suggestion - Toughness on Dragon armor?
if thats not possible then a set bonus for it on 105 set would also help, of course.

i also agree that setting your stats to def would help on ironhide or debuff-dragons.

BUT: ironhide or debuff i use in situations where its needed, in 95% of a dungeon run i use a dragon that increases my damage as high as possible, including mounting.
so of course i want my dragons to increase my damage AND survive (and heal me and regenerate my DE).

so i agree with Kitalia, gladly look forward to the update and hope that there will also be a solution for toughness

btw for everyone who doesnt know - baarzukk means dragon when he writes kite

But if you need help with your kites or in general, feel free to write to me.

 

[Baarzukk]

i agree that toughness would help a lot, thats why i asked to add it as possible stat for dragon armor:
Suggestion - Toughness on Dragon armor?
if thats not possible then a set bonus for it on 105 set would also help, of course.

i also agree that setting your stats to def would help on ironhide or debuff-dragons.

BUT: ironhide or debuff i use in situations where its needed, in 95% of a dungeon run i use a dragon that increases my damage as high as possible, including mounting.
so of course i want my dragons to increase my damage AND survive (and heal me and regenerate my DE).

so i agree with Kitalia, gladly look forward to the update and hope that there will also be a solution for toughness

btw for everyone who doesnt know - baarzukk means dragon when he writes kite

So in general, if you weren't always to blame for other things and let your laziness triumph, sweep your own front door. Would you find that almost everything is available in this game. So once again to your unnecessary comment, once again they would have simply increased the score as described above from 1605 to 2405. You could better expand the defensive in the attribute distribution without causing a general increase in damage to the mounting. You should just read my suggestions in peace and let the knowledge put in them, think about what the man wants to say to you. Then you don't put half-truths into the world and save people a lot of work.

You don't even understand the solutions I am giving you. (Pictures)

 

[Seiichi]

It all depends on your expansion and what you plan to do with them. Even in RG my ironhide doesn't die with the bosses. What you all do not consider is that the regular defense brings almost nothing. that's why the Mannhards set (98) with its set bonus is just as good as a 105 dragon set and why is that so? Because there is toughness on him. But if you need help with your kites or in general, feel free to write to me.

That's why I gave many, many points that would be much better suited. We come with the right skill and expansion so 80% + defense and it is only a maximum of 95%. That is, raising the basic attributes won't make it any better. But you will notice that at the latest when it is there.








So I have no dragon, focus on Affinity or Intelligence, Strength on the armor of the dragon. There is almost only constitution on it. If you are asked why ferocity is 10, then here is the answer. Because the skill soul drain scales with it.

But the best comes, instead of screwing the dragon so hard, Seiichi and co would simply have had to change the scaling of the charisma then all dragon would have become stronger. The effect would have been exactly the same xD. But that's the way it is when you have bad advisors. You can't know things like that because you don't play them, only you.

What you could of course have done if you want your dragon to be stronger is to get gloves until you have a charisma value of 200+ on them. This would also lead to the same result. you can see that my charisma is 1022 and that is 50% + of the standard value. Now imagine you get 200+.

This is your final warning, lose the ego or you will be unwelcome on this network.

The fact that you are belittling people who you have no clue whether or not they exist is hilarious to me; more so when I have told you specifically that the decision to change stats was for multiple reasons. One is to increase stats to make Dragons more viable, another was to make capturing Dragons more rewarding than holding an egg for a week, and finally to make it so that even basic Dragons could be more viable and worthwhile again. Yes, there are people we discuss our ideas with, though we will also generally take feedback from people on Discord as it is where I am personally most active. That said, no one is actually an advisor other than when they give suggestions, which are then weighed with what we already have planned before it is even considered.

With the amount of work that already goes into things on this network, I do not need the work of babysitting someone with such an over inflated ego. If you wish to make suggestions, learn to do so without talking down to others, and try to understand that your opinion is not the end all answer to everything.

 

[Jaslyn]

Hey
Baarzukk belittles everyone if needed ^^" but we arent that easily offended and to be fair, hes got a point.

Hes trying the whole time to explain to you all that the increase in the attribute bonus doesnt do antyhing good for the dragons as intended. The whole time, with the calculation and such the only real playes who benefit from the increased stats are the magic based classes, the oracles and the sorcerers who mount to increase there damage.

He got tons of ideas which really would make our beloved dragons more viable instead of the upcoming planned changes.
You dont know him Seiichi, but maybe you spotted that Baarzukk wants to be right. Hes worried that the changes may not be good enough to really do something for the dragons and tried to prove something to reconsider the changes. I dont say anything against it, you worked really hard to pull it through and make all changes work. Were seeing this on all the delays to release something good and finished.
But there was for sure a better way to communicate such concerns.

Nobody wants to hold an egg for a whole week. Make wild dragons more viable truly frees us from that. I liked it to in the old days to hunt the dragon you want and did not appreciate the new egg system, buuut that was the only way to get perfect dragons and its really appreciated, that you lend us playes the ear, something you dont have to do and spend your time with people with that big of an ego.

 

[Seiichi]

Hey
Baarzukk belittles everyone if needed ^^" but we arent that easily offended and to be fair, hes got a point.

Hes trying the whole time to explain to you all that the increase in the attribute bonus doesnt do antyhing good for the dragons as intended. The whole time, with the calculation and such the only real playes who benefit from the increased stats are the magic based classes, the oracles and the sorcerers who mount to increase there damage.

He got tons of ideas which really would make our beloved dragons more viable instead of the upcoming planned changes.
You dont know him Seiichi, but maybe you spotted that Baarzukk wants to be right. Hes worried that the changes may not be good enough to really do something for the dragons and tried to prove something to reconsider the changes. I dont say anything against it, you worked really hard to pull it through and make all changes work. Were seeing this on all the delays to release something good and finished.
But there was for sure a better way to communicate such concerns.

Nobody wants to hold an egg for a whole week. Make wild dragons more viable truly frees us from that. I liked it to in the old days to hunt the dragon you want and did not appreciate the new egg system, buuut that was the only way to get perfect dragons and its really appreciated, that you lend us playes the ear, something you dont have to do and spend your time with people with that big of an ego.

The issue is that he is no position to talk down to anyone, and that the attitude is unwelcome here, especially when I have to put up with it. Making suggestions are fine, and I am even fine if people really push to get their suggestions in game. This particular issue is that he was condescending (to me especially), and also has talked down to others, and has started arguments because people disagree with him. Sadly, this is not how the world works, and it especially does not work well with me as I do not have much tolerance for people in general. If he wishes to act the way he is acting, he can do it else where, whether it be by his own choice or by mine if he does not change how he acts.

There was never actually any point to him having an attitude or even arguing; I told him some of what he suggested was planned, and some of it is not quite feasible in the way he suggested. It has been stated several times that other changes are planned, which will rectify his concerns, but he has chosen to ignore those. At this point I do not even understand why he is continuing to have an attitude or to start any form of argument other than his need to be right, which literally is impossible in a situation where he cannot know what is right or wrong without the proper information.

This current delay has nothing to do with the the actual content of the update; it is either something related to bad coding on Runewakers fault (the error itself adds weight to that), or it is due to a conflict that did not show up on our local or remote test environments. It is just another example of the hell that it is to run Dragon's Prophet.

 

[Mikin-1]

I play all 4 classes and love the dragon prophet game. Thank you Seiichi for being actively be part of the community. The only thing I wish is to make non-mage players a boost in pve. I have sorc/oracle and mount after god skill damage was to OP making any other classes can't even compare. I love my guardian but sometimes annoying bosses you can just use a sorc/oracle throw out god skill and mount = dead boss. I guess I can't complain since it makes my pdmg shards cheaper.
(I guess I work more on oracle/sorc now that mounting = more damage due to increase in dragon mount damage)

I am just looking forward if anything planned to make guardian/ranger close the gap on oracle/sorc in pve. I guess doesn't matter at end, I play the game regardless.